The Wrong Door — the fear is real. you're just facing the wrong way.

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The tackles flying in, the official missing things he should have seen and giving things he shouldn't. Both benches up off their seats. Somebody in the crowd with their hands over their eyes not watching. And when the final whistle goes, half of what happened out there isn't settled. Except this isn't the World Cup. It's an under-14 girls game on a suburban pitch on a freezing Sunday morning. No money, no glory, no cameras, and somehow more real than anything you'll see on the television this month. Because every person on that touchline actually cares, and not one of them is getting paid to. When the dust settled, some of it didn't settle at all. The game shouldn't have been run the way it was. Everyone knew that. The question was never whether something needed saying, it was what and to whom and how without making it worse. So there I am, 9 o'clock that night, still annoyed, blank page, and a very strong urge to write the kind of letter you regret by the morning. However, the letter did get written. Measured, firm, fair, the good version, not the ranting 9pm 1. Now what does that have to do with the AI transition? I'm Steven, and with me always, Lauren.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

But even Hawaii, I'm dying to know what does it have to do with the AI transition? What was going on at this game? How did the robot solve it for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Well, the robots didn't solve the game, but they did help to solve the aftermath of the game, which we will get to by the end of the episode. This AI transition is seeping in everywhere, Lauren.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

It is another another couple of weeks, more action in the world of AI. So let's see where this one goes.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

So look, we're going to do this in three sections again today. So we're going to be talking about the wave that's already hit the USA. It's kind of hit the UK and is on its way to Australia. It's good for people to be aware of what's happening. Because at the moment, I think we're maybe getting a bit obsessed with just what's happening over in the States, which is really important for them. Um, but you know, there's other things that are either haven't happened here or um could happen differently. So we'll do that first and then delve into why people are potentially looking at the wrong door with this, why we're potentially afraid of the wrong thing. Are we just afraid of this replacement that's going to happen? But is there more to it than that? And then we are going to come back finally to the to the ranty letter at the kitchen table by the end of this of what people can do, how how this seeps into more people's lives, and how potentially people can start where you're not afraid, which is in these other aspects of your life, which isn't work.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

I I like this analogy, like the this concept of, you know, the wrong door, like, you know, what is the actual fear and which door are we going through? What's actually going on? We talk about the stats a lot, right? Um, and we don't want to go too deep on this because again, we're kind of thinking more philosophically around what's going on, what are we looking at, what are we actually bracing for? Is it the impact we think we we should be bracing for? So America, it's really like that full immersion, right? Like you've got half of the adults using it weekly, but only one in six believing it's good for society.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Oh, the tool that everyone's using and no one trusts.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

That's a that's a that's a cracking start, isn't it? That that one you're you're right. You're people are using it and they hate it.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

They don't like it. No. And obviously there's some association there with all the the richest guys in the world, you know, driving a lot of this, particularly in the States. So very polarizing, big numbers coming out over there. I again we're gonna try and avoid the stats, but I think just that punchy one where you've got half of the adults using it weekly, right? But only one in six thinking it's good for society. So no one's trusting this, but everyone's using it.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Um the narrative that the stats are beginning to back up is that the the ladder in a work sense is being pulled up in real term in in the USA just now. So those entry-level jobs, they are being frozen. Those graduate roles are being gutted somewhat as well. Those kind of 18 to 25-year-old roles, um, it's really tough for that section of society just now.

SPEAKER_01 4:04

Yeah, and if you're just going through uni and on your way and how quickly this has evolved, like what does it look like for you? So thinking about these doors and what we're afraid of, you know, it's not so much the, do we say, the robot at your desk. It's the bottom of the rungs of this ladder just quietly being sawn off. This is getting sad already, Sarah.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

We are going to get to the good bits.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

But turn it around, aren't we?

SPEAKER_00 4:25

But there are some confronting things that are got going on just now. A bit of a personal anecdote. Um, you know, I I do have a really good friend in California. He's 30 years plus in IT, an amazing guy. And he's been told his contract is up at the end of July. As the organization that he's working for is redirecting funds to pay for their AI investments. So I mean, hopefully that individual story, he's going to be able to persuade them to not let them go, and they'll realize the amazing stuff that he does all around, not just his core role. But this is impacting real families just now. So it's a tangible thing that's happening in the USA at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

And it's really that messaging, isn't it? Like we're redirecting funds to pay for AI investment. So that's why they call this wave in the US the capital reallocation wave. Like the story around how we're reallocating you towards AI. But really, if you go back a little bit in time, it's it's a bit of storytelling, dare we say, in terms of perhaps it was overhiring during COVID, we're recalibrating. And it's a good message, dare I say, to the investors, not to the humans on the ground, that hey, we're investing more in AI. Really, what's actually going on.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

And you can see what's happening in the American stock market. All-time highs in people's 401ks, you know, they're uh they're looking pretty healthy just now. This has been boosting that part of the of the market. Uh look, we'll see how long that lasts. And this show is definitely not about financial advice, but we'll touch on some of that by the end of the episode. Yeah. There are there are real tangible things that are going on in the USA. This is a real thing that has hit real jobs, and particularly those entry-level jobs. If you look at what's happening in the UK, it's it's still there, but it's maybe not to the same extent. What have you been finding?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Well, they're calling this one the UK Hollowing. So we're kind of diving into three key waves. Take of these names what you will. So we're talking about the capital reallocation of states. This is more of the system contraction wave. So deep penetration in the UK, you've got a lot of anxiety and a lot of political volatility, I guess you could say. And there's a huge amount of anxiety in the public. So when we talk about adoption in the UK, it's got to about 54%, whereas in Australia we're about 10% behind. We're talking net job losses of about 8%. Um, and you've also got about 20% of British firms kind of adopting bespoke AI tools and they're talking about direct staffing cuts. But again, it's more of that soaring off of those entry-level jobs on that ladder. But I think the worrying element of this one is more the public anxiety, where you've got a huge portion of um the public talking about that they think, and this is like 22% of the general public, and about 30% of, oh my God, we've gone deep on the stats, Stephen. And about 34% of uni students, they believe that AI will eliminate jobs fast enough to cause civil unrest. That's how much mistrust and anxiety we've got in the UK.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

That's that's not a good stat that one in three people at university think that this seminal technology, which is on the cusp of changing all sorts of things, will actually cause civil unrest. Not just being a bit bad and you know, things won't be so great, but will cause civil unrest. That's not a good place to be in.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

And it's, you know, I look we we probably have these chats all the time too. Like how much of this is fear-mongering from the tech bros wanting to sell a great story about what their product's doing versus actual impacts to humans, but we can see the impacts on the grounds. Where is Australia at? And and pretty much we talk about this wave three that it hasn't quite landed at scale yet for us, but it's landing in pockets.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Yes. I mean, there's been some of those high-profile ones like Atlassi and Wise Tech and you know, Telstra, and there was some Combank stuff earlier in the year as well, but it's still not widespread. That's certainly what I'm seeing both on the ground and all the consulting that we're doing, but also around friends and neighbours, that there's a lot of chat about it. It's certainly one of the first conversations that come up. A lot I was going to say, beside the Barbie, but you know, it w it's the middle of winter in Melbourne. There's not a lot of beside the Barbie going on at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 8:37

Maybe on the on the pitch, right? When you in between challenging what the amp's doing.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Yeah, when when when I was growing up in Scotland and I was thinking of Australia, I thought there was like neighbours and sunshine all the time. Um it just people who are on Australia. It's really not like that in Melbourne. It's bloody cold, uh especially at this point. Um anyway, when people are huddled um in their black jackets and gloves in front of the fires in the pubs, this come this comes up a lot. This this definitely comes a lot. You know, there's there's definitely anxiety, and a lot of that is to do with the news that we get here. You know, so much of it is driven by both a US and a UK. So while people are seeing and reading that, they can see this sort of stuff on the horizon and it's causing real concern.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

And uh a new acronym or a new phrase is hitting us. Uh phobo. I love phobo. Fear of being obsolete.

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Obsolete. Fear of being obsolete. Uh and look, it's a legitimate fear, to be honest. And I think phobo is great. Uh it shows how much society has moved on. You know, it was FOMO, you know, of what you're going to be missing out on. And now it's we're straight on to you're not missing out and stuff. You're actually going to be fully obsolete.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Yeah. Gosh, it's not as good as Drumo, is it? Dwayne missing out. So, yeah, and look, a huge number of people are worried about this. We talk about it a lot too, to the point where sometimes I'm like, Steven, I don't want to hear, I can't hear this story. Like, I'm trying to maintain the abundance mindset, keep adapting, keep bringing, you know, um trying to stay ahead of what's going on and using these tools. So that's a little bit about what we're trying to talk about today. We can see what's going on in the US and the UK. Hopefully, you know, Australia, we we can learn a little bit from what's going on over there. And we talk about America isn't necessarily a destiny, dear God. It's a bit of a weather forecast, though, right? Like you can prepare for it, you can see what's coming, get a thicker puffer. Terrible. Nah, I didn't nail that analogy. We were talking about this wrong door analogy at the beginning. And I'm still dying to know what's in that that letter, by the way. That the the wave is real, right? But what we're talking about is uh which way is this actually pointing, right? So as the wave's coming through and we're thinking about what we're trying to fend off so that we can dampen down our phobo.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Well, fr it looks like, and looking at what's happened in the in the States in the UK, this isn't an immediate replacement. So it's not like this hits and everybody's just made unemployed, right? Which is where I think a lot of that phobo really comes from. That's the door that literally this arrives, AI is going to get rolled out in your organization, and you're done. That's not the way that things have played out, at least so far, right? And you know, who knows where where where this will go. The the fear is legitimate for that, but probably the reality, what's happening here is that there's more of a a hiring chill. And and there could well be lots of other aspects with this as well. I mean, we've we've had COVID, we've had the Ukraine war, we know we've now had a war in Iran, you know, that there's stuff that's going on in the world, which isn't, you know, all wonderful and great for the economy by any means. But I think that silent freeze, that's that's what's happening just now. The the the cutting off the wrong of the ladder if you're in that much younger age bracket, that fear of being obsolete because you're just never gone to the ladder at all, that is probably relevant. The the further up that that ladder you are, it's different. It's potentially more burnout from a corporate point of view, where you're being forced to use these tools that you don't necessarily trust.

SPEAKER_01 12:04

Yeah, exactly. And I think the burnout one is fascinating. Like if you talk to a lot of your your mates or pals, as you like to say, Steve, at the moment, a lot of them are talking about that burnout because the the I guess the great thing is we have seen a lot of optimization. Like a lot of things we used to do that would take days, now take minutes and seconds, right? So you're really focused and you're doing deep thinking, critical thinking all the time, and you're not getting much of a chance to kind of, you know, maybe there used to be a little bit of mundane admin that you could use to kind of recover, but now you are really doing a lot of that critical thinking a lot more of the time. So you're still in that adjustment phase, right? In terms of how we work for these tools. So the interesting thing of what we're fearful of isn't so much that machine that does your job. That's the bit that's making you panic. It's how we're actually adapting. So I guess what we want to talk about is not to freeze in fear, but talk about some of the things that we're doing instead without revealing our ages, Stephen, right? Thinking about this transition. Like, what are we all seeing and focusing on so that we don't rot in phobo?

SPEAKER_00 13:03

I think that was a really important one that you raised there. Because these tools are so good now at doing a lot of those mundane things. So doing the collecting of information and the shuffling it around and some of those repetitive tasks, and a lot of that is getting automated. And what's been less is the hard stuff. As you said, you know, the critical, the critical thinking. And maybe previously you'd have three or four points in a day where you would have to have that real critical thinking, and then the rest of it, your brain's got time to kind of relax. That's maybe not the case as much now, because your role as the human is to play that critical role, to provide that that judgment. And that's hard to be in that kind of mode all the time without that relaxation. From what I am seeing, that burnout part absolutely is real that's there, that that's hitting a lot of people just now.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah, you're working at peak, you're context shifting because you're bringing in more and more work. So we're in that adaption phase too of how do you you optimize when the system's optimizing itself with you. So again, this fear is real, right? But it's it's let's how do we cope in the meantime? We're in this this phase of optimizing. So I think there was some tips. Am I diving too soon, Stephen?

SPEAKER_00 14:12

No, I think actually we should get on to the how people can cope with this. Because we've talked about the reality that's there, and it's really tough in the States. There's probably a bit of a a time here in Australia still. There's a there's a bit of a window um for people to build skills, understand what's really going on, and and also for the powers that be to maybe shape this in a slightly different way before it hits. So I think helping people, helping ourselves, and I think maybe if we share some of our experiences of where we're really learning this stuff, because it probably would surprise people.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

It is surprising. And look, I think we we hear the phrase shadow AI a lot, and really all it means is we know something's coming, we're trying to prepare for it, and perhaps where we're working day-to-day doesn't have some of these tools yet. So I know you and I have been experimenting a lot in in different ways with using we've probably both got a bit of a bias towards Claude, but Claude's got a lot of friends in there in terms of how we work together. So I know certainly uh I've been trying to help my um partner who's an artist, and this is where it gets unusual because there's a lot of pushback, particularly from musicians and artists, on using AI, but using it in a different way. And I actually leveraged, and this is what's interesting in the marketplace now, it was a skill that you'd built in Claude, because we came reuse skills that you were using for some of your marketing in terms of thinking about uh your personal branding, the way you communicate and how you want to work out there in terms of your digital resources. And my partner of self-taught artists and getting out there, an amazing opportunity at a gallery as a stockroom artist. Billy Lime, look her up, little bit of self-promo. Um, I was chatting to you about this, and you're like, oh, you should give, let's give this skill to Billy, who really, you know, uses technology a bit, but maybe not as geeky as you and I, Stephen. Um, Billy literally spent a couple of hours working with this skill to explore who she was as an artist, how she described herself, what was important to her, uh, where she her people that she wanted to interact with her artwork. Um, even just some of the language she used around naming the art. And it was quite, she said, Oh my god, this was mind-blowing. I didn't expect this at all. So this, I'm not sure, did she actually call it a marketing skill?

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I think it was it wasn't so it was a it was a brand agent.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

A brand agent, that's right. Right, Lauren. So this is a brand agent, just getting Billie to, while she had some time, reflect on how she was actually going out into the world as an artist and how she was interacting. Even did things like reviewed her website to look at how did the language on the website align to who she was philosophically? Even just the some of the colour schemes and how um uh the design of the website would portray her as an artist. So really acted like a coach for her and got so much out of that reflection. And it was quite surprising, really, because we've been quite anti-AI in that creative realm, but it's thinking in a different way. How can these tools tap into something? Problems that you need to solve where you probably can't go out and afford to hire a branding agent and you're wanting to reflect yourself.

SPEAKER_00 17:10

And that for me is the main thing as well, was that this isn't necessarily taking anyone else's role because it's not people who have hundreds of thousands of dollars just lying around who can go and hire all these amazing agents and you know, the the top of the tree and the rest of it. This stuff just wouldn't happen otherwise. I and I certainly found that myself, right, as well. Go going through this this same experience. I found it fascinating and it and it really dug into where do I want to go and why and uh you know and what I'd done so far and and calling out things as well that were clearly the antithesis of what I was trying to achieve. And also think the be being able to have that um interaction with uh I was going to say a person. It's not a person. Okay. But you beating it. Right. Um on my own time scale, when I wanted, when I was ready for it. Because there was times when I was chatting away from it where I was ready to have a chat at nine o'clock at night after I'd watched some TV. And look we'll give away this skill as as part of the notes as well as you'll people download it, you know, and load it into Claude's, and I'm sure it will work in um in ChatGPT as well. It's a great way to learn. This is the way to learn, is just to use this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Huge. And you'll see more and more. Um, you know, you get out there, you'll see a lot of people talking about I've used I created this agent or this skill to manage my even little things like your your daily email, like bringing things to your attention, what's important to you? Here's some automation that you could set up. So have a play around with that. And again, it's not about giving over to a robot. It's like, oh, actually, yeah, this does take a lot of effort. What could what do I need to focus on? So even reflecting on yourself, like in these trying times, dare I say, like, is there some other talents you've got that you just haven't had time to tap into that just seems like a huge amount of time? Like, actually, what could you spin up working with these tools?

unknown 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Which sounds a bit vague because I want it to be a bit vague. Like, we're all creative humans. Like, what what can you get in and talk to your robot friend about and spin up?

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Correct, correct. And and uh and everyone's got different things, right? If if we give it given another example, kind of going back to kind of the the opening that we we started with. I'm a volunteer coach for a under 14 girls team, you know, which is kind of the centre of my life at this moment in time. And you know, and it's it's a lot of work, right? There's limited help that you get, the the the community club that I'm part of, that they're amazing, you know, but they're all volunteers as well. And so you'll be able to have someone in quotes who's able to help coach me, coach them, makes a big difference. And so I've spun up my own Claude agent that was loaded in with how we want to play and how the how the club wants to play football. You know, we're trying to design training sessions, we talk about the match after the fact. And then my assistant coach, uh an amazing guy, um he he vibe-coded an app. He's a bit of a geek, right? Uh bit like us.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

I mean that in the best of ways when we talk about geeks. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

But he vibe coded an app so that while the game was going on, and one of the challenges when you're doing uh the these sorts of games on a on a Sunday morning is that typically you will have a number of people on the bench and you need to give them all a game, right? It's it's just part of it. Yes, you're there to win, but it's a it's a community club as well. So you're trying to be as fair as you can. And but sometimes it's hard to remember who's been on, who's been off, uh, who can play in what position, um you know what's happened the last couple of weeks, all of that sort of stuff. And when you're in the middle of things and there's ten minutes to go and you need to make you know four substitutions, everyone's looking at you, it's a bit of a kind of you're deer in the headlights. So my assistant coach, he he wrote this a great app which which helps us and um and he records things as it goes and it gives us a summary of what happens and it helps us with substitutions. And it took him a couple of nights just kind of chatting away. Um I think he I think he used codex for that one from from OpenAI. And it's a great little app, something that would never get built in the past because there just wasn't the time to do it. But this this is a tangible help to an aspect of life which is really important to me and to everyone else who's who's who's kind of involved in it, but we don't have the the real time and the energy to put in what what should be a full-time job for a lot of this.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Bring in your own Ted Lasso situation.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yeah, yeah, 100%, right? So it very much kind of Ted Lasso. I am hopefully we'll be as successful as that.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

And look, you are the girls are doing very well, by the way. Like you're underplaying Yeah, they're playing some pretty much.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

So let's do it. They're doing well. They do. They're doing well, right. But if I go back to you know how how we opened this, you know, there was a really tough game that we had, and from my point of view, where you get slightly kicked off the park and the referee actually ended up being their team manager and it was all about dodgy and you know, it it was uh there's a great Scottish word called a strmash. It was a stromash on a Sunday morning, right? So uh A stromash football Victoria, um you'll help with these sorts of situations, and I wanted to write a you know an angry letter from so that it didn't happen again in the future. You tell 'cause potentially yeah. When I was growing up in Scotland, it's what's called uh angry from morning side, because morning side's one of the posh areas in Scotland where you know people write letters to the newspaper. So it was one of those and it really helped. It I was able to create a proper letter, it was able to pull the relevant codes that I thought had been broken, but it was also able to do it in a in a good and measured way that took all of my emotion and nonsense out of it. It was still done in a timely manner. We got a good result um at the end of it. Um we're going to get a proper referee for the next game, which is all we're really looking for. It helped. It made it made a it made a tangible difference to me in that moment and will do in the weeks to come to the girls on the team and the parents who are watching that and to the environment that's going on. So it's a positive aspect. And it just wouldn't have happened without this help. I was too tired, too frazzled, too angry. It just wouldn't have happened. And learning to use these tools in this sort of manner, this is the best way to pick this sort of stuff up in my experience.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

And even um I you were giving me some grief earlier where I think even a few weeks ago, I was like, oh, Stephen, you've got to be careful about, you know, how much you let into the AI and what leaks out into the models. And um, it's obviously the end of the financial year, and you know, budgets are tight. So I kind of deep dove into a whole bunch of financial analysis. And I was working with Claude Cowork, and I wanted it to go and get a bunch of, you know, account summaries and expenses and pull them all back. And it suggested that I uh use the Claude plugin in Chrome, which just sounds so lightweight. And there's a whole bunch of warnings that you have to accept the risks of when you sign up to this, you're like, oh, malicious code, all this sort of stuff. What it could do in the in the about five minutes that would have taken me weeks was just extraordinary. Um, in in terms of, and again, we've all got our own levels of risks that we want to take on here. But it really tapped into something in me going, wow, what else should I be doing and analyzing and tapping into? Because the day job does take quite a lot of energy. Like you said, this is at night. You're trying to fuzzily look through all these finances and figure out what you're doing, is really bringing that information to the fore and empowering you. That's what I quite liked. I'm like, oh wow, look at where this is all going. Okay, now I can move over here and I've got some capacity here. So I got a lot out of doing that. Not the sexiest thing alive, but you know, doing some financial analysis, but it's gonna help the both.

SPEAKER_00 24:41

But it's important. I think that's a really important word. You know, it did empower you to do other stuff. It gave you information and in a way that normally you wouldn't have been able to pull together to make you make some more informed decisions rather than some probably deeply wrong decisions at 10 o'clock at night after a glass of wine and you're going, uh whatever. Um that's where I think it helps with with people's lives just now. How how you can use this in a potentially a non-threatening way. I agree you've got to be careful around the security aspects. But these sorts of tangible examples, it begins to show to you what can be done. And you have to learn as you go through how all this works.

SPEAKER_01 25:25

Absolutely. And apply it to something that's meaningful to you. Like you mentioned soccer, my uh partner's painting, a little bit of budgeting, you know, maybe the parents are going on a trip around Australia, need help planning things out. Like any kind of problem that would usually take you a lot of time and research, like geek out on it, play around with it with your robot of choice and see what you can come out of it. And maybe there's a bit of creative inspiration here. But Stephen, have we landed this? So we've got the soccer pitch story, we've talked about the wrong doors.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I look, I I think so. We wanted to give people hope of what you can actually do. And it's that start where you're not afraid. If you're using this in work, it's a it's a different context, right? And there's probably huge limits of what you can and cannot do within the work environment that you're in just now. But that's not so true outside. This isn't expensive. You can do these in the free tier. Um, if you step up to the kind of the $20 a month tier, you can do more, but you can still stay in the free tier and do everything that we've talked about. It's a way of learning this, making it so useful. And I think the main thing was to think about that. This isn't just like a Google search where you're going, you're asking one question and getting one answer back. This is moving it to that next level where you're you're getting it to achieve tangible things for you. So this is that constant interaction to create something or to create an artifact or to fix a problem, right? That's where to focus on.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

Absolutely. And uh the the agent that you created, the thing that I loved about that is it's helping you figure out who you are and then re-pointing you back to hang on, didn't you say this was one of your call bays? So you it's quite surprising what you can get out of it. Obviously, there's a whole lot, like you said, you've got to be wary of certain security risks and even classic hallucinations with generative AI, but this is more of the creative element where you're being coached, it's tapping into who you are. So dig into some of these skills and agents that are out there. And um, Stephen, did you I think you even said you're willing to share yours?

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Yeah, so we'll definitely put a link to to this to that skill within the notes here. Um download it, have a play with it, tweak it, change it, um, put it into the robot that you use and ask it to tweak it and change it as well to make it even better. You know, this is what this stuff is for, right? And this is how you learn.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Beautiful. Where are we gonna go with this? Who are you in this world? It's exciting. And again, it's about avoiding this wave and fending off the phobo.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

So reiterate what we're saying about the wrong door. At the moment, this isn't about being obsolete tomorrow. That's that I don't think that door is there. Well at least here in Australia at the moment. Right. Um there are there are genuine things to be concerned about, but you'll go through that door of being able to start with things that you uh that will help you that will give you some tangible value. Um and maybe you can give the most valuable thing here, Lauren, is your classic joke at the end of the episode.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Yeah, I I did go with the the door theme. Are you ready, Stephen? Here it comes.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

It's a classic, I'm sure we'll get some good groans out there. When is a door not a door?

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Uh um I don't know when's a door not a door, Lauren.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

When it's ajar, they tear away.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

Excellent, excellent. Um, yeah, let's move moving quickly on from that one. Thank you, Lauren. Uh I think I think that was that was really valuable. And so thank you everyone. If this has got you thinking, please share this with someone wrestling with similar sorts of things. Subscribe, comment, wherever you're listening, it really genuinely helps. And we'll see you next time. And remember, you still matter, at least for just now. Thank you, Lauren.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Thank you, Steven.